Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

Historyczna Gra Strategiczna - Historical Wargame
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 Tytuł: Re: Core rules (aka Small rulebook) for free
Post: pn sie 21, 2017 10:12 am 
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Rejestracja: pt lip 11, 2014 1:42 pm
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I have a few comments:

"Defense" or "Defence" - This order varies between the US ("Defense") and UK ("Defence") spellings. Maybe you should use one spelling only. Alternatively, maybe the order should be "Defend" so it is a verb like the other orders ("Move" and "Charge").

There is a typo at the bottom of p.28 - "perfirm" should be "perform".

There is a paragraph at the top of p. 36 that appears to have an extra paragraph 'return'.
"… left by it for the following turn (do not remove it in
the
Reorganization Phase). In the following turn the Unit…"

The "Additional Examples" on p.66 are really useful. Could example 1 be amended to show the position of the units after the three units have completed the charge and countercharge moves (As done with example 2). Also, would it be possible to include 1-2 more examples which show how charging and countercharging units would meet at the halfway point when one or other of the units makes a wheel.

P.S. Great job by BlackLegion on reviewing the beta version so far.

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 Tytuł: Re: Core rules (aka Small rulebook) for free
Post: sob sie 26, 2017 12:41 am 
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Rejestracja: ndz wrz 06, 2015 6:28 pm
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Page 107: "additional" in many places should be "optional"

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 Tytuł: Re: Core rules (aka Small rulebook) for free
Post: pn wrz 25, 2017 11:09 pm 
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Rejestracja: pt cze 05, 2015 5:03 pm
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One suggestion I would have for a new edition is to improve the layout. Right now, there are several factors which impede readability and 'lookupability'. These rules are so complex and many faceted, and the book itself is physically so huge, that it is often difficult to remember where exactly a particular rule is located in the book and to quickly find it during a dispute during a game.

A few recommendations to fix this:

- Abandon the division into standard and advanced rules. Its artificial anyway (because I've never seen anyone use just basic rules) and it creates a lot of confusion, because the same action in the game can be impacted by rules from all over the book (movement especially, but shooting and combat as well). A better solution would be to incorporate advanced rules into the main rules, but to use the blue text with the blue armour image that is used for 'optional rules' where applicable.

- Please, please, please group rules about the same topic more closely together? For instance, why is 'flanking fire' not in the main body of text? Why are rules for artillery units both in the Special Rules section AND the Artillery section? Why is the 'Shooting while charging' rule spread out over both the Close Combat and the Special Rules sections?

- Similarly, the fact that Morale Tests do not immediate follow the Close Combat section has always confused me. As has the fact that the rules for MOVING fleeing or withdrawing units is described intertwined with the effects of these results. No clear fix here, but it just confuses

- Also, why is Open Order in between? Shouldn't that be in the Movement Section? Is Charging in Open Order even necessary? Wouldn't it be easier if the whole thing was just replaced by a rule that says "Units in Open Order that Charge do so by first forming a Close Order unit, then move into Combat normally, still count as Open Order for shooting at them, simply get a -1 on their Combat Resolution, and revert back to Open Order when Withdrawing, Pursuing or Fleeing."

- Abandon the big text blocks which hide several different components into single paragraphs (for instance, the section on 'Commanders on the battlefield' is a notoriously unclear example). Please use more spaces between subparagraphs or use more intermediate headers.

- Particularly for the scenario's, please use a more detailed way of presenting the specific parameters of the scenario. Right now, everything is tucked away in three big paragraphs (Battlefield, Deployment, Objectives), but it would be so much easier if there was a more comprehensive standard list. For instance:

1. Scenario-specific terrain pieces (rivers/villages/hills)
2. Number of additional terrain pieces (how many chosen per player?)
3. Special terrain rules for scenario (ford appearing, tent encampment)
4. Deployment weaker player
5. Deployment stronger player
6. Fortifications allowed? (yes/no?)
7. Starting orders
8. Who begins?
9. Objectives weaker player
10. Objectives stronger player
11. Additional rules for scenario-specific objectives?
12. Limits on usable Additional Effects or Reconnaissance

- Specific comments and questions:

1. Its still not clear what counts as having moved for purposes of the -1 modifier for Shooting After Movement?
2. Make it explicit that Impetus carries over from the previous turn if the charging unit did not fail its 'Failed Charge' test.
3. Are you sure that the number of different types of terrain and their effects can't be simplified? The new overview tables at the back of the book demonstrate that this has gotten way out of hand.
4. The map for the Ambush scenario is incorrect, it is currently the 'Delay the Enemy' map.
5. Make the order of the special rules more logical. For instance, put 'Countermarch', 'Ranked Fire' and 'Salvo' immediately after each other, rather than spread out through the section. The same goes for Insubordinate, Rabble, Robbers and Militia. Or Good Tactical Discipline and Poor Tactical Discipline. Or Light Cavalry, Elite Cavalry and Feigned Flight. Or Marksmen and Rifled Barrels.


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 Tytuł: Re: Core rules (aka Small rulebook) for free
Post: wt wrz 26, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Rejestracja: ndz paź 13, 2013 2:34 am
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Lokalizacja: Leipzig (Germany)
All good suggestions :)

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 Tytuł: Re: Core rules (aka Small rulebook) for free
Post: pt paź 20, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Rejestracja: ndz paź 13, 2013 2:34 am
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Things which come to mind:

1. If counting the number of Cavalry Bases for Reconnaissance are Commanders on horses counted too?

2. If both players have units which can be placed into Ambush (can happen with Transylvania, Muscovites, Cossack Plastunys, etc)or any rule which allows/forces one or both players to place Units later on during the game: how is determined who has to choose a Unit for Ambush, etc first? Or have they secretly write it down and reveal it simultaneously?

3. In some scenarios it is determined by the number of Units which player has to start deploying first. Are Commanders counted as Units here? Have Cossacks with 2 Commanders to decide before or during deployment if they have one or two War Wagon Trains? Are Units counted which are arriving on the battlefield later(Ambush, Delay, etc)?

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 Tytuł: Re: Core rules (aka Small rulebook) for free
Post: sob paź 21, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Rejestracja: pt lip 11, 2014 1:42 pm
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I have another paragraph that may be ambiguous.

The following sentence is at the bottom of p. 90: "In addition, Commanders may not use any Shooting Special Rules (Hail of Arrows, Flanking Fire, Shooting while Charging etc.)."

Many commanders do have special shooting rules in the army lists (i.e. 'shooting while charging - pistols' or 'shooting while charging - bows').

Does the sentence on p.90 mean that a commander cannot use any shooting special rules when operating independently? If they can they only use these special rules when attached to another unit then maybe that should be clarified somewhere.

I could not find a similar sentence in the 'The Deluge' supplement. Should this sentence (or maybe even the paragraph) be marked with a "!".

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 Tytuł: Re: Core rules (aka Small rulebook) for free
Post: sob paź 21, 2017 2:22 pm 
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Rejestracja: wt lip 11, 2017 10:53 am
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There are a couple of paragraphs with changes not market with "!", so technically you should turn to the file in any case rules are in question. We also only noticed by accident.
So far we found no pdf-reader of acceptable speed of the file though, so we still resort to the book, which causes discussions... looking forward to the hardcopy release

also thanks for pointing out the commander special rules thing, we had the same discussion before.

anyway, sitting at the airport at the moment I found some time going through the points we had some discussion on in former games; some seem quite clearly defined now, which is good. In general I consider the pdf a very valuable document with many clarifications.

couple of points I'd like to throw in:

p42 shooting after movement depends on the type of weapon: what about artillery? This is especially interesting if artillery has been manned again, no order and could fire its one die in the shooting after movement, as it has not shot before.

p79: Due to the cyclical nature of the firing this is not considered to be Movement (the Unit does
not receive a -1 Skill modifier when shooting)

only the modifier is mentioned, but not other conditions; most important the salvo. Is it RaI to use salvo and countermarch alternately? as of now you could do it, as only movement and shooting is forbidden after a salvo, but countermarch explicitely not considered movement; yet still both ranks get to shoot, which feels weird.

p149 “every lost base”. excluding commanders is implied, but not written; same for fleeing. In general we had a few discussions whether "base" includes commanders or not (such as in "one point for every cavalry base" for the sake of recon points", sometimes more clarity helps here. ctrl+F-ing all "base is tedious though :)

Commander ammunition: If a commander was attached and participated in several turns of ammunition spending, but becomes detached again: Is his personal ammunition reduced the same way "his" unit's ammo was reduced? or does he maintain his four shots?

and one basic wording question: why did you name the "regeneration" as "reorganization"? this is especially confusing as it is actually done in the starting step, and not, as one would think, in the reorganization step. I would strongly recommend to rename it regeneration, or something that does not have a step named the same where it does not occur in.

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 Tytuł: Re: Core rules (aka Small rulebook) for free
Post: sob paź 21, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Rejestracja: ndz sty 22, 2012 5:51 pm
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Pioneer pisze:
Many commanders do have special shooting rules in the army lists (i.e. 'shooting while charging - pistols' or 'shooting while charging - bows').
Which of them, exactly? :)

Other questions - I'll try to answer them soon, but rather partially.

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 Tytuł: Re: Core rules (aka Small rulebook) for free
Post: ndz paź 22, 2017 9:36 am 
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Rejestracja: pt lip 11, 2014 1:42 pm
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Hi Witold - My apologies. It is only the Swedish and Tartar commanders in the main rule book who have the special rule for shooting while charging (Pistols for Swedish and Bows for Tartar). 'Many' was certainly an over exaggeration! :blush:

In my defence, I have been playing mostly Swedish and Tartars lately…

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 Tytuł: Re: Core rules (aka Small rulebook) for free
Post: ndz paź 22, 2017 4:28 pm 
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Rejestracja: ndz paź 13, 2013 2:34 am
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Also needs to be addressed:

First Strike: If i kill the first row of a unit with First Strike weapons, can the second row strike back or can't the Unit attack at all?

Dice pool reduction: Some rules force a base to loose 1 attack die. What if this unit has only 1 attack die to begin with (Musketeers CC value for example). Can't they attack at all then?
We usually play it as if with flanking attacks: If a unit has to loose an attack die due to some effect and this would reduce the unit to 0 dice then it rolls with 1 dice but with -1 Skill.

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