Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

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 Tytuł: Re: Task Force of Ivan Khovansky
Post: pt mar 12, 2021 2:42 pm 
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le_sphinx pisze:
Unfortunatelly almost all Moscow Task Forces have this requirement to have at least one unit of Boyars. Only Border Defence Task Force doesn't have it.


Yes, but for instance in the Voivode Cavalry Task Force, for +1 FSP you can buy 4 bases of Servant Cossacks or Boyar Sons or Field Dragoons, which makes it much more flexible. So its much easier to bring the Boyar Sons up to a strength of 8 bases and still limit yourself to only one unit of them. Whereas the Khovansky Taskforce gives you one extra base for that same +1 FSP, but you can only buy Boyar Sons, not any of the other unit types in the list.

Btw, with regards to the lack of clarity with regards to how many bases of Jiltsy you can buy extra for +1FSP in the Khovansky Taskforce, the original PDF for Jiltsy explains that:

Cytuj:
If you want to buy any grey bases theat them the same way as Reiters/Dvorians (1 FSP for 3 bases). They are treated the same way as Dvorians/Boyars sons for pu-proses of fielding Zavoievodchicy sotnia


See: http://fireandsword.wargamer.pl/index.p ... 4%3Ajiltsy


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 Tytuł: Re: Task Force of Ivan Khovansky
Post: sob mar 13, 2021 10:14 am 
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Hrothgar pisze:
Yes, but for instance in the Voivode Cavalry Task Force, for +1 FSP you can buy 4 bases of Servant Cossacks or Boyar Sons or Field Dragoons, which makes it much more flexible. So its much easier to bring the Boyar Sons up to a strength of 8 bases and still limit yourself to only one unit of them. Whereas the Khovansky Taskforce gives you one extra base for that same +1 FSP, but you can only buy Boyar Sons, not any of the other unit types in the list.

Mm, I see. Good point!

Coming back to Jultsy's category.
I have just played in Army Creator. As a result got the following roster:
FSP 25
Recon 7
Force Size 61

Vanguard: 6 Servant Cossacks
Base: 6 Jiltsy, 6 Reiter, 4 Soldats (Pike), 4 Soldats (Musketeer), Capitan, Falconet, Transport Wagon, 3 Zavoievodchicy Sotnia
Level I: 8 Elite Streltsy
Level II: 8 Boyar Sons with spears, Golova
Level III: 6 Reiter, Quarta Colubrine
Level IV: 5 Soldats (Musketeer)

If we count Jiltsy as traditional unit, Khovansky gets 3 command points. However the Army Creator doesn't allow to do that :blush:


Ostatnio zmieniony ndz mar 14, 2021 4:34 pm przez le_sphinx, łącznie zmieniany 1 raz

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 Tytuł: Re: Task Force of Ivan Khovansky
Post: sob mar 13, 2021 1:19 pm 
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Hmm, its a good question. If you replace the Jiltsy in that list with Boyars, then there is no problem for the 'Inexperienced Commander' rule. So the classification of the Jiltsy is the problem.

I would have expected Jiltsy to count as a 'traditional' unit, given their background, as Wargamer explains that they deliberately choose to portray them as a form of Boyar cavalry in the game (instead of as a form of Reiter cavalry).

Is this correct? I also posted this question on the Facebook group By Fire and Sword - International Community for fans.


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 Tytuł: Re: Task Force of Ivan Khovansky
Post: ndz mar 14, 2021 12:33 am 
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Hrothgar pisze:

Yes, but for instance in the Voivode Cavalry Task Force (...) its much easier to bring the Boyar Sons up to a strength of 8 bases and still limit yourself to only one unit of them.

It's true only if you want to limit yourself to level I Task Force. You have to field at least one Boyar Sons squadron in the base of Task Force.

Also, Jiltsy are traditional unit so in le_sphinx list commander would have extra order. They are recent addition to Army Creator and somehow they are not counted as either 'New pattern' or 'traditional' unit


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 Tytuł: Re: Task Force of Ivan Khovansky
Post: ndz mar 14, 2021 11:20 am 
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Pikciwok pisze:
Hrothgar pisze:
Also, Jiltsy are traditional unit so in le_sphinx list commander would have extra order. They are recent addition to Army Creator and somehow they are not counted as either 'New pattern' or 'traditional' unit


Seems like something that should be fixed!


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 Tytuł: Re: Task Force of Ivan Khovansky
Post: ndz mar 14, 2021 4:11 pm 
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Cytuj:
FSP 25
Recon 7
Force Size 61

Vanguard: 6 Servant Cossacks
Base: 6 Jiltsy, 6 Reiter, 4 Soldats (Pike), 4 Soldats (Musketeer), Capitan, Falconet, Transport Wagon, 3 Zavoievodchicy Sotnia
Level I: 8 Elite Streltsy
Level II: 8 Boyar Sons with spears, Golova
Level III: 6 Reiter, Quarta Colubrine
Level IV: 5 Soldats (Musketeer)

What do you think about the list guys?


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 Tytuł: Re: Task Force of Ivan Khovansky
Post: ndz mar 14, 2021 8:49 pm 
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I've yet to play a game on task force level, so please treat this as an advice from novice player based on theorycrafting.

I think your list may be a bit bloated. My more experienced friends tend to play on 21-23 FSP, so more often than not you're gonna be an attacker. Maybe consider cutting extra bases of Strieltsy and Boyar Sons to drop to 23 FSP? Also I am not sure those 5 musketeers are great added value for 2 FSP... I would swap them for Boyar Sons, and in level 2 I would pick another Reiter Squadron. It may help a bit with your low Recon.


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 Tytuł: Re: Task Force of Ivan Khovansky
Post: pt kwie 02, 2021 10:51 am 
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Pikciwok pisze:
I've yet to play a game on task force level, so please treat this as an advice from novice player based on theorycrafting.

I think your list may be a bit bloated. My more experienced friends tend to play on 21-23 FSP, so more often than not you're gonna be an attacker. Maybe consider cutting extra bases of Strieltsy and Boyar Sons to drop to 23 FSP? Also I am not sure those 5 musketeers are great added value for 2 FSP... I would swap them for Boyar Sons, and in level 2 I would pick another Reiter Squadron. It may help a bit with your low Recon.

I think that 2-3 FSP difference in armies at Task Force level doesn't have that much impact.
Imo musketerers are much better than Boyars.
The third Reiter Squadron is a really good option. However I would like to be friendly to my opponents without spaming too much cheese units :D


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