Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

Historyczna Gra Strategiczna - Historical Wargame
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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:22 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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as for the first, to clarify my example:
time is not phase. phase would be: defensive fire phase, or shooting while charging phase.
my example would be:
in the defensive fire phase, three units shoot at a small company. three hits, three zeros. is that now four wounds or six, given the restriction in the rule?
if the shots are fired in three different phases each, e.g. defensive fire phase, shooting while charging, and shooting after movement, then definitely six. question is if the shots are fired in the same phase. but by different units.

so the way I understand your answer, you'd say four in the first case, six in the second case?

as for the second question, countermarch as by rulebook is neither a maneuver nor movement, therefore perfectly possible...question is if this is intended.

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Last edited by onkelsheik on Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:47 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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1. Yes.

2. Shooting with Contermarsh isn't normal shooting.

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:08 pm 
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the wording is "shooting the usual way", written in relation to the second salvo. Which is forbidden, that is obvious, but whether something like countermarch is permitted is not concludable from the rules as written.
Although you might be perfectly right, a clarification would be nice nontheless. For both questions, as we had quite a few discussions for both before.

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:43 pm 
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Agreed that the wording can be ambiguous, but the rule is that only regular shooting is allowed after a Salvo. Regular shooting is understood to be shooting with no special rules or abilities.
Countermarch is a special ability which combines some movement and some shooting (like Caracole does for cavalry).

So if your questions is "what's the correct way to play?" then the answer is no countermarch after a salvo.

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:30 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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thanks.

still waiting for a clarification of the small companies; we had quite a bit discussion on this, so to know whether this effect can occur several times per shooting phase or only once would be helpful.

an additional question arose during the weekend: If you uncover your charge order, and your intended target is behind a river now (swimming rule); which rule applies?
a) targets behind "obstacles" may be ignored. While the rulebook names "ditches" as obstacles, it does not name rivers, and while semantics would imply that a river can be an obstacle, the use in the rulebook is usually more narrowed down
b) as the target is in line of sight, it must still be charged until the river is reached. after that, the skill check rule applies, as would be in the regular "out of reach but in in LoS" case
c) the target is treated as out of LoS (as it is obviously unreachable by river now, not by range), and the charge is transformed to a movement order, as per rulebook in the LoS case.

the issue is that if b) would applied, the unit is effectively removed from the game, as turing around, wheeling, and moving wherever takes more rounds as the game is going; unless you play elite cav, as so often.
I would think applying c) would be more logical (always assuming there is no other unit in LoS on the own side of the bank), but this is not rules as written as of now.

so the question in brief: do I still have to charge to a river bank although I have obviously no chance whatsoever to reach the enemy on the other side? I doubt this would be historical or logical, and it has a major impact on the gameplay.

thanks, appreciated

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:01 am 
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Answer in brief, if you cannot make a legal charge moves (ie. you cannot move in straight lines toward target) then you must choose different legal target and if no target is possible then you switch order to Move.

But if charge is legal, but it would take 2+ turns to connect, then you must charge.

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:39 pm 
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Thanks for the answer, so it comes down to whether the charge is "legal". It is not possible to reach the target by straight line or narrowing, as the river is in between. yet the distance to the river could be (though pointlessly) covered, taking the unit essentially farther away from the target (in sense of turns), as it would need to turn around and follow the river bank until the bridge, then back on the other side.
so, is it legal or not?

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:33 pm 
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still no answer on the river issue.

nontheless, another question: march losses, also for single base units (which then are dead)?
not explicitly excluded, yet I would think this is silly.

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:15 pm 
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onkelsheik wrote:
Thanks for the answer, so it comes down to whether the charge is "legal". It is not possible to reach the target by straight line or narrowing, as the river is in between. yet the distance to the river could be (though pointlessly) covered, taking the unit essentially farther away from the target (in sense of turns), as it would need to turn around and follow the river bank until the bridge, then back on the other side.
so, is it legal or not?


That is not a straight line, so is not a legal charge. But this doesn't matter, as units across a river is not a required target: [...]when declaring the target of a Charge you may ignore [...] any enemy Unit that cannot be reached with a Basic Move due to terrain, required maneuvers, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Thanks for the clarification.
It is a straight line, at least until it reaches the river :). But the way I understand it, and as I suspected, in this case you would not need to take the charge.

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