Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

Historyczna Gra Strategiczna - Historical Wargame
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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:20 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
Still no answer? But here i have another one:

Just to be sure:
The -1 to-hit modifier is for shooting is received in the Shooting After Movement Stage regardless if your unit has actually moved or not. Correct?
Also if a unit has a Defence Order and uses the Change of Position special maneuver once it still shoots in the Defenders Fire Stage without modifier. correct?


Unless a unit trait cancels it, the -1 modifier applies.

Correct as the maneuver is technically not movement for firing purposes.

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:24 pm 
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So a unit which has a Defence Order pospones it's shooting (while spending a Command Point) to the Shooting After Movement Step will receive the -1 modifier?

In summary: Regardless of Order or what the unit actually does: if it shoots in the Shooting After Movement Step it receives a -1 modifier unless a special rules cancels this modifier?

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:05 pm 
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That is my take on it. I don't remember an exception to any particular circumstance. I don't believe the modifier is for moving but for being in a state other than prepared for combat under a Defend order. Now your particular example shakes that theory up. I would need to research further. Interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:49 pm 
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If I read it correctly then the -1 for shooting after movement is only used when the firing unit did move and used a weapon that does not cancel the movement rule (for example half-musket has a rule that states it has no midifier for shooting after movement).

So, as I read it, the modifier is not for firing in the 'after movement stage', but for firing after moving. Most units that will fire in the 'after movement stage' will have moved, and thus will use the modifier anyway.

Intersting then is if manoeuvres for units with defense order count as moving. I'd say not, but I'm not sure.

My two cents,
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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:12 pm 
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OK. Actually read the rules. I agree. DRM is for moving and firing unless cancelled by special rule. Defend order allows special maneuvers and would be considered movement IMO, however; their advantage is being able to fire in the Defender's Fire phase.

Any takers?

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:16 am 
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BlackLegion wrote:
Still no answer? But here i have another one:

Just to be sure:
The -1 to-hit modifier is for shooting is received in the Shooting After Movement Stage regardless if your unit has actually moved or not. Correct?
Also if a unit has a Defence Order and uses the Change of Position special maneuver once it still shoots in the Defenders Fire Stage without modifier. correct?


1 - yes, the modifier is applied for shooting in that phase (thanks to a movement order or a lack of orders). No actual movement of bases is necessary.

2 - yes, you are still shooting in the Defender's Fire stage.

Regarding the wagons, I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure that I've played it with wagons not granting a "flanking shot" bonus die. But that may be wrong..

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:07 am 
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AshTheKing001 wrote:
BlackLegion wrote:
Still no answer? But here i have another one:

Just to be sure:
The -1 to-hit modifier is for shooting is received in the Shooting After Movement Stage regardless if your unit has actually moved or not. Correct?
Also if a unit has a Defence Order and uses the Change of Position special maneuver once it still shoots in the Defenders Fire Stage without modifier. correct?

1 - yes, the modifier is applied for shooting in that phase (thanks to a movement order or a lack of orders). No actual movement of bases is necessary.
Could you please tell me the page were it is written that the -1 modifier (Shooting after Movement) is for all units with a Move order (whether or not they have actually moved)?
Also a Unit without an Order does not get a modifier, it shoots with only one dice per base.


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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:14 am 
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Only Disorganized units shoot with only one dice. Units without Orders shoot with full effect in the Shooting after Movement Step and also without the -1 modifier if they don't move it seems.

Edit: Found it in the "The Combat Phase" chapter. Units without order indeed shoot with only one dice per base.

Why is every bit of information scattered all over the rulebook? :(

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:39 am 
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To equalize:

1. Units with Movement Order shoot in Fire after Movement Phase. They have -1 penalty unless the weapon they use have rule "No modifier for shooting after movement". So cavalry with bows can shoot with Movement Order without any penalties for movement.
2. Unit count as moving if it has a Movement Order. It doesn't matter if it actually changed possition. The whole idea of Orders is to represent some sort of chaos and uncertanity. Unit with Movement Order is just prepared to move - weapons lay on shoulders and without black powder on flash pans, so any shooting in this state is in great hurry.
3. Units with Defence Order don't get the -1 modifier for shooting after Movement - even if it delay shooting.

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 Post subject: Re: Offical Answers to Rules Questions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:23 pm 
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Thank you for clearing that up :)

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