Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

Historyczna Gra Strategiczna - Historical Wargame
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 Post subject: Lithuanian Skirmish Set pdf
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:42 pm
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Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
Since I don't have my rule book yet, where can I get the Skirmish set PDF or find out the structure or a 4 or 5 point force?


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 Post subject: Re: Lithuanian Skirmish Set pdf
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 2:42 am 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:27 pm
Posts: 187
Location: Oslo, Norway
I don't believe there ever was a Lithuanian Skirmish Set PDF published, only a Polish one as part of the English rulebook Kickstarter. Also, both the Polish and Lithuanian lists were changed in The Deluge (and later in the Revised Rulebook) from two to four skirmish lists per nation. Sadly the available choices have been severely limited, and the figures included in the skirmish set don't really match up with a basic force.

In the old rulebook you could build a basic 5 point Lithuanian Skirmish Force (1673-76) [the only one allowing petyhorcy] like this:

  • 3-base petyhorcy banner with lances
  • 3-base cossack style cavalry, replaced with tatar banner
  • 2-base petyhorcy banner with spears (may be expanded to 3 bases)
  • 2-base cossack style cavalry, replaced with dragoon company (may be expanded to 3 bases)

This could be expanded up to 9 FSP with up to 12 more bases (for a max total of 24), including 6 more petyhorcy, one of which could be elite.

In the Deluge/Revised Rulebook your only basic option is now a 1668-76 list:

  • 3-base cossack style banner, replaced with a 2-base petyhorcy banner with lances (may be expanded to 3 bases)
  • 3-base cossack style banner, replaced with tatar banner
  • 2-base petyhorcy banner with spears (may be expanded to 3 bases)
  • 2-base cossack style banner, replaced with dragoon company

So as you can see your list is now one petyhorcy base weaker. In addition they have the Poor Quality Horses rule, meaning
your extra charge movement is halved and is disorganized more easily after a failed charge.

Further on you can expand this list as follows:

  • 6 FSP: 2-base cossack style/tatar/dragoon banner (all elite, expandable to 3 bases)
  • 7 FSP: 2-base cossack style/tatar banner (expandable to 3 bases)
  • 8 FSP: 2-base petyhorcy (with spears) or elite cossack style/tatar/dragoon banner

So only 8 more bases, of which only 2 can be petyhorcy, for a max total of 19. All this makes the new list a lot less fun IMHO. But maybe the old list was unbalanced, I dunno.

Anyway, the first thing I would do is to move the dragoons down to the 6 FSP slot so it (along with the petyhorcy) can be expanded to 3 bases. This effectively doubles your firepower (unless you send away the horses after dismounting), and the elite status also makes them Salvo capable. Alternately you could make the tatars elite and move the dragoons to the second basic force slot. Either way you'll need 2 cossack style bases and one dragoon base, which requires a blister of each. To start with you could just get the cossack style banner, then you can choose making them or the tatars elite. After this, 2 more blisters of cossack style and/or tatars, or maybe one more petyhorcy and a Rotamaster (command base).


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 Post subject: Re: Lithuanian Skirmish Set pdf
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:52 am 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:42 pm
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Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
Can you still use the original list and if so what units are available to bring the force up to 9 FSP in addition to the 2 bases of Petyhorcy? For the Deluge/Revised rulebook you said it was less fun. Would it be better to have the force at 6 or 7 FSP?


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 Post subject: Re: Lithuanian Skirmish Set pdf
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:27 pm
Posts: 187
Location: Oslo, Norway
jerryk wrote:
Can you still use the original list and if so what units are available to bring the force up to 9 FSP in addition to the 2 bases of Petyhorcy? For the Deluge/Revised rulebook you said it was less fun. Would it be better to have the force at 6 or 7 FSP?


I guess you can if your opponent agrees, but it's out of print and no longer allowed in tournaments. Basically it could be upgraded with the same types of units as the new list, just more of them. Before you could have 12 bases of petyhorcy (3 of which elite), now you can have only 8. Also, what's the point of having lances when you can't charge at full speed?

As for the fun factor, since it usually involves a lot of travel and setup I like playing slightly larger battles than the normal 2.5 hour, 100x100cm tournament skirmishes. Many of the newer lists seem to use fewer figures than the original rulebook. Maybe it's to make it easier for new players or speed up tournament play, but I find it awkward having to buy 18 figures and not getting to play with more than 12 of them. I guess their "play with the figures you have" philosophy is one reason why the Black Powder/Pike and Shotte rules are so popular.


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 Post subject: Re: Lithuanian Skirmish Set pdf
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:49 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:42 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
Thanks. Things will get clearer this week when my rule book arrives.


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