Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

Historyczna Gra Strategiczna - Historical Wargame
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 Post subject: Best way to start?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:19 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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Location: Midvale, UT
I have a buddy who has shown interest and wants to start PLC, so I was thinking I'd grab him some models for Christmas to nudge him along and give me an excuse to finally build an army.

Anyway; i was wondering what you guys think is the better option to start: the Polish skirmish box (which does't seem to have enough Cossack style cav to actually fill the list requirements?) or grab him the Polish cavalry regiment box.

Which would you guys suggest? I don't think he's missing out on too much not having the Wallachian cav, but I defer to the PLC pros here.


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 Post subject: Re: Best way to start?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:55 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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The skirmish box fulfills the minimum requirements (for at least some skirmish force) by substituting wallachians
to cossacks on baseline troops.

I personally like to have light troops or dragoons in my Polish forces.
I have been beaten by skirmish forces consisting solely of cossacks and pancerny.
What is best would probably depend on how Your buddy enjoys playing.
Straight charges only, sneaky maneuvers with light cav or sneaky maneuvers and shooting dismounted in support of heroic charges.

Ottoman will probably have the numbers in most games and has the option of fielding sneaky light troops - and masses of infantry.


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 Post subject: Re: Best way to start?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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Looking at the army builder it seems like every skirmish list would need five bases of Cossack style minimum and the skirmish box only comes with four.

Unless I'm missing something somewhere.

As for his play style: it varies between games. In Flames of War, for instance, he likes to run armor, in other games I've seen him use swarm tactics, sometimes he goes for smaller more elite forces.


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 Post subject: Re: Best way to start?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:40 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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Have you tried to change one unit (I suppose 3-base) of cossack-style cavalry to wallachian (3 base)?

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 Post subject: Re: Best way to start?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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robson wrote:
Have you tried to change one unit (I suppose 3-base) of cossack-style cavalry to wallachian (3 base)?


Yep. It basically comes to one three base unit of Pancerni, one three base unit of Cossack, a two base unit of Cossack and then the three base unit of Wallachian.

It's part of the reason I'm debating buying the Cav regiment set because it comes with enough Pancerni and Cossack style cavalry to actually fill the units. it would lack the Wallachians, but I suppose I could always buy a blister of those to add some variety if need be.


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 Post subject: Re: Best way to start?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:13 pm 
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You can field "Polish Skirmish Force (1658-1666)" and "Polish Skirmish Force (1673-1676)": 3 pancerni, 3 wallachians (change from cossacks), 2 cossack, 2 cossack

As for the wallachians I think they are now available only in box of 6 bases, so probably maybe better option to buy skirmish + blister of cossacks.

Of course, if you are even thinking of playing Task Force level, then you might find a place for 6 bases of wallachians in the vanguard :)

Cavalry regiment is good, as you never have enough cossack-style cavalry in polish armies :D

You might consider also buying Gosiewski's Foray - it is a small but elite skirmish force: two commanders, 5 bases of reiters, 4 bases of cossack-style cavalry, 3 bases of dragoons [mounted and on foot], 3 bases of winged hussars. It is a Lithuanian skirmish set.

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 Post subject: Re: Best way to start?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 9:16 pm 
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robson wrote:
You can field "Polish Skirmish Force (1658-1666)" and "Polish Skirmish Force (1673-1676)": 3 pancerni, 3 wallachians (change from cossacks), 2 cossack, 2 cossack


Somehow totally missed the fact you can change the three base cossack unit to the Wallachians. Derp.

I'm torn between the skirmish box and the cav regiment. It'll give him some extra stuff to expand already, which is nice, but it'll be a bit less diverse than the skirmish box.

I looked at that character box set, but he's pretty firmly set on playing Poles rather than Lithuanians I think.


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 Post subject: Re: Best way to start?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:38 am 
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I think regiment would be more versatile as it allow to field the "strongest" of all PLC skirmishes "Polish Skirmish Force (1649-1652)", which do not have any drawback rules (e.g. poor horses, robbers, etc.). You also have a unit with spears.

Wallachians are more or less cossac-style cav in a "true" loose formation. As far as I know tartars (second level) are better at this job, and you can expand them by blisters (Wallachians only box). If you want wallachians but do not plan to expand to higher levels of play (Task Force, Divisional level) you might consider buying skirmish box just to have those 3 bases for variety :)

For many scenarios, if you are fighting Western style armies it is good to have one unit of dragoons. Unfortunatelly, only Lithuanian boxes has them in the base boxes. You can use Gosiewski to build Crown / Polish skirmish force later if you buy more cossack-style cav or one blister of pancerni (You can have then: commander (Gosiewski can play role of any commander), 3 dragoons, 2 cossaks, 2 cossacks, 3 pancerni / cossack (you need to buy blister, I recommend pancerni)).

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 Post subject: Re: Best way to start?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:26 pm 
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Maybe you could buy him two skirmish sets, Polish and Lithuanian? Would that give him more options and let him choose if he preferred to go Polish or Lithuanian as he expanded?


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 Post subject: Re: Best way to start?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 11:56 pm 
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robson wrote:
I think regiment would be more versatile as it allow to field the "strongest" of all PLC skirmishes "Polish Skirmish Force (1649-1652)", which do not have any drawback rules (e.g. poor horses, robbers, etc.). You also have a unit with spears.

Wallachians are more or less cossac-style cav in a "true" loose formation. As far as I know tartars (second level) are better at this job, and you can expand them by blisters (Wallachians only box). If you want wallachians but do not plan to expand to higher levels of play (Task Force, Divisional level) you might consider buying skirmish box just to have those 3 bases for variety :)

For many scenarios, if you are fighting Western style armies it is good to have one unit of dragoons. Unfortunatelly, only Lithuanian boxes has them in the base boxes. You can use Gosiewski to build Crown / Polish skirmish force later if you buy more cossack-style cav or one blister of pancerni (You can have then: commander (Gosiewski can play role of any commander), 3 dragoons, 2 cossaks, 2 cossacks, 3 pancerni / cossack (you need to buy blister, I recommend pancerni)).


Good to know. I figured the cav regiment would be a good option, especially for the same price, and then he could buy Wallachians, Tartars, Dragoons and infantry as he sees fit for later on down the road.

I'l gonna be playing Ottomans and Transylvanians myself (still haven't decided who to start with yet), so I figure the cav regiment would be fine against either of those skirmish boxes.


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