Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

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 Post subject: Swedes and Finns and Mercenaries
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 4:59 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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I've been looking over the few Nafziger orders of battle for The Deluge. Not my favorite source, but it's an ok starting point. My question, is there an English language source that might help me identify whether a regiment is Swedish, Finnish or mercenary?


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 Post subject: Re: Swedes and Finns and Mercenaries
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:09 pm 
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Fältherren
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Swedish and Finnish regiments were known under name of province, mercenary under colonel's name.

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 Post subject: Re: Swedes and Finns and Mercenaries
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:10 pm 
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Sekretarz królewski/Royal secretary

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here is a list of Swedish and Finnish infantry regiments (not 100% complete unfortunately)

http://kriegsbuch.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Uniforms


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 Post subject: Re: Swedes and Finns and Mercenaries
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:22 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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Thank you kindly. I note that Nafziger's spelling of Swedish unit names is even worse than his spelling of German names


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 Post subject: Re: Swedes and Finns and Mercenaries
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:30 pm 
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Fältherren
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National cavalry – kavalleriregementet

I. Swedes:
Upplands ryttare
Västgöta kavalleriregemente
Smålands och Ölands ryttare
Östgöta kavalleriregemente

II. Finns:
Åbo och Björneborgs läns regemente
Nylands och Tavastehus läns regemente
Viborgs och Nyslotts läns regemente
+ dragoon regiment:
Berendes lätta kavalleri (Budbergs Karelska dragoner)

National infantry – regementet till fot

I. Swedes:
Dalregementet
Västmanlands regemente
Upplands regemente
Södermanlands regemente
Närke-Värmlands regemente
Skaraborgs regemente
Elfsborgs (Alvsborgs) regemente
Västgöta- Dals regiment
Kronobergs regemente
Kalmar regemente
Jönköpings regemente
Östgöta regemente
Hälsinge regemente
Västerbottens regemente
Ångermanlands- Medelpads- Jämtlands regemente

II. Finns:
Åbo läns regemente
Björneborgs regemente
Västra Nylands regemente
Östra Nylands regemente
Tavastehus regemente
Viborgs västra regemente
Viborgs östra regemente
Savolax regemente
Österbottens regemente

Some sources claims one regiment Nyland and one regiment Viborgs.

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 Post subject: Re: Swedes and Finns and Mercenaries
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:20 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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Resurrecting an old thread because my question seems a logical follow on. I've seen the link to colors for national infantry. Are there any known distinctions between the national cavalry regiments? Is there any obvious visual distinction between national and mercenary (especially cavalry) regiments?
Would cavalry in a skirmish force likely all be drawn from the same regiment or might I mix national and mercenary in the same force? What about dragoons attached?
Thanks,
Phil


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 Post subject: Re: Swedes and Finns and Mercenaries
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:20 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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I have not run into primary sources for cavalry regiments.
Högman gives following on cavalry regiments in Finland before Carolinian standard uniform ordinances of 1689/90:
Finnish cavalry regiments wore grey coats with lining and cuffs in provincial colours. (arms of province of coat of closesti infantry regiment? )
http://www.hhogman.se/regementen_kav_sf ... s_l%C3%A4n
For Swedish regiments he mentions "colour of regiment" for Östögöta cavalryregiment being red.
For Bohuslän green. (Formed after 1661 so too late for Deluge :-))

Elsewhere it has been said cavalry had no uniforms but wore elkhide coats later changed into softer leather vests (with sleeves), skinbreeches and boots with hard tops.

So You would be pretty free to do as You like since documentation is so scarce. That said I took infantry colours as basis for my own cavalry troops, making national formations semiuniform, with freshly raised lower quality levies more variance. Mercenaries I tried to do without any hints of uniform. This is just personal solution. You could equally well argue that oberstinhaber raising a regiment of cavalry would get them dressed with his own sources, thus creating sort of uniformity.


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 Post subject: Re: Swedes and Finns and Mercenaries
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:57 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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According to Lars-Eric Höglund of Acedia Press (who wrote two books on the Thirty Years and Scanian Wars periods), primary sources for the Karl Gustav period are all but non-existant. However there are examples of cloth-uniformed cavalry regiments both before and after, so it would not be too much to assume these could exist in the 1655-1660 period too (even if we do not know the details). Some examples:

  • Von Thurn's dragoons: Blue (1627)
  • Aderkas' cuirassiers: Yellow wadmal (1629)
  • Viborg och Nyslotts cavalry: Red with green facings (1675)
  • Savolax dragoons: Blue with black facings (1675)

It should also be remembered that elkhide coats were expensive and usually restricted to officers for private purchase or cavalry during peacetime, so it seems unlikely there would have been finances to equip all the new regiments formed in this period with leather coats (which also had a tendency to rot in rainy campaigns). According to Höglund, armoured reiters in buffcoats are more at home with Oliver Cromwell's troops than the Swedish army. Also, "Dräkt och Uniform" states all the elkskin buffcoats during the Thirty Years Wars were exported to raise funds instead of going to the cavalry. However during the 1670s leather coats seems to be the most common uniform issued, even if they wore out in a few years and replacements were hard to come by. So it would not be unrealistic to imagine Swedish cavalry regiments uniformed in blue, red or grey coats during the Deluge.


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 Post subject: Re: Swedes and Finns and Mercenaries
PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:05 pm 
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Fältherren
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Well, here's problem, as situation from reign of Gustav II Adolf and from Karl XI and XII was completely different than that from 1655 preparation of Karl X Gustav's army. We're lucky to have diaries of three cavalrymen from Swedish army invading Poland during the 'Deluge' and - as far as I can remember - none of them mentioned any sort of uniform for the units they served with.

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