Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

Historyczna Gra Strategiczna - Historical Wargame
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 Post subject: Swedish tactical advice
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:39 am 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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Hey all
We have now played quite a few skirmish games using a Polish and Swedish force. So far the swedes have had a really hard time handling the Polish cavalry force. The only succes so far was a defend the village scenario where the village was filled with dragoons and a cannon. When the Swedes use Reiter based forces they alway seem to come out worse, as the Polish cavalry almost always outnumberes them. It is our experience that a 4 base unit of armoured Reiters will Loose to a 6 base pancerni unit. Especially the companion rule means that the Polish units are always roling a ton of dice!

Is there something we are missing here? The Swedish player will now try to employ 6 base units, hoping that this will level the field, but it will mean that he will probably be either outnumbered or playing a tough scenarion with additional effects favouring the Poles.

Tactical advice are very welcom


Cheers
Erik


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 Post subject: Re: Swedish tactical advice
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 1:50 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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The main trouble in Pole vs Swede confrontation is not in my opinion the companions rule,
but the elite cav rule and 20/+20 range of those charges that makes the Polish charge really farreaching.
And armor on the pancerni makes them tough indeed.

Ways my opponent who plays makes my life hard as Pole:
- softening up my troops with firearms before engaging either the pistols they carry or by fire of dragoons - every now and than they help killing a base and either forcing an annoying morale est or winning a following melee
- refusing to exchange charges head on, but luring those long charging attackers into positions where they will be
a) shot b) engaged by superior numbers
- what he does not do is use armor, but for some lists this is an option
- in 6 base vs 6 base Swede can utilize his Good tactical discipline and even winning in kills may not be enough to rout the annoying reiters - ( and as You have found quantity has quality of its own - even 6 bases of volunteers might give four bases of reiters trouble if the dice roll right...)


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 Post subject: Re: Swedish tactical advice
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:21 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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Location: Severna Park, MD
Julfdi wrote:
The main trouble in Pole vs Swede confrontation is not in my opinion the companions rule,
but the elite cav rule and 20/+20 range of those charges that makes the Polish charge really farreaching.
And armor on the pancerni makes them tough indeed.
)



yeah the Elite Cavalry thing is a bitch. Straight up ... both by how they maneuver to attack ...and also for trying to shoot the buggers ... :)


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 Post subject: Re: Swedish tactical advice
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:28 am 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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One of the major advantages the Swedes have is the number of commanders. I usually field all three and join them. If you then manage to prevent your polish opponent to field the entire width (e.g. 4 bases vs 4) you can also succeed in a heads on. But even better to lure, though rarely possible.

Three commanders also allow you the maximum use of the large staff special rule.

I have stopped using armor in skirmishes as SWE. Not worth the points imo. Plus, e.g. in the invincibles skirmish, you can field 2x5 blobs of unarmored and 1x4 blob of armored; I prefer to join the commanders to the 5x blobs to keep the bonus morale as long as possible.

Arqebuses can be used in caracole, but as the range is so limited I find this hardly of use against elite cav, and prefer to take the extra base. But it makes it possible to soften e.g. villages or the like.

But at the end of the day, it's a Polish game, so Poles must come out top, /discuss :p
no, seriously, :p the 10cm extra charge are one thing, but the open order charge combined with slipping the wheeling etc business is highly imbalanced imo. How much distance I usually lose to wheeling here wheeling there maneuver here and there.. and my elite cav opponents just teleport over the battlefield, bringing impetus 2+, armor 5 and companions... But well.

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 Post subject: Re: Swedish tactical advice
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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For that +2 they need to charge as close order cavalry.
In straight line and wheeling like reiters. (p. 81 of the small rulebook)

So if they do wonky teleporting like open order cav the impetus drops to +1.

8)


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 Post subject: Re: Swedish tactical advice
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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but it is enough to declare the open order only for the additional movement step (on the same page of the rulebook), hence after the defensive fire stage. so you can remain open order for defensive fire (unless delayed, so you get the important -1 to hit vs e.g. cannons in range) and teleport in position, then charge closed order in the additional move.

but even if you go like in open order, the +20 hurts with either +1 or +2.

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 Post subject: Re: Swedish tactical advice
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:05 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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Yup. That flexible long ranging charge is scary.

( Same 20/+20 range from turkish sipahi much less so. )


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 Post subject: Re: Swedish tactical advice
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Namiestnik

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Remember to place fieds on battlefield (I know how it sounds :) ). Enemy wiil lose impetus and his additional movement will be limited to 10cm. If you have defend order, you may get him panicked, if you fight, you'll have better chance to win.


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 Post subject: Re: Swedish tactical advice
PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:32 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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terrain is generally helping a lot to channel cavalry. but nontheless do Swedish lists also rely on their cav, so while you hit the better cav relatively harder, you also impede yourself.
The SWE skirmish with cannons unfortunately only features nonvet cav, I am curious for the fall releases of both the army books and the army builder. Nonvet cav just gets eaten by panczernys.

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 Post subject: Re: Swedish tactical advice
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:21 am 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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Thank you fore all the imput. Its is really interesting to se, that we are not the only ones strugeling with the Poles. The comment about this being a Polish game so the Poles must win has also been but forward by the two Swedish players. :D

My frustration was just as much the general Picture I got from various reads and youtube clips, that the Swedes were the power army. Nice to hear, that it is infact the Polish.

Cheers

Thomas


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