Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

Historyczna Gra Strategiczna - Historical Wargame
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 Post subject: Cossack Tabor
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:33 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:25 pm
Posts: 15
Hello all;

I have been playing with the cossack wagons (tabor) for several games now and I found that the horses and wagon should be on seperate bases. Let me explain why I suggest this.

First I find that when cavalry or infantry charge the wagons the enemy is actually charging the width of the base where the wagon is. The horses should really be tended to the side or placed in cover away from the wagon . That way you dont have an open gap for units to pass through.

Look at it as a horse artillery. when the wagon (tabor) is on the move you would place the horses in front. but when the wagon is turned and set into a defensive postion. it would make sense that the horses are tended to the side or rear of the wagon away from the fight.

I like this method for functionality rather than looking good on the table..

Your thoughts.... iconKOZ


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 Post subject: Re: Cossack Tabor
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:15 pm 
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Fältherren
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Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:21 pm
Posts: 10287
Location: Edinburgh
As far as I remember (Rafał will probably write to confirm if I'm wrong or not) there is some future plan for 'stationary' tabor wagons as well. Cossacks (and not only them) were quite often fighting from moving tabor (for example at Kumejki in 1637) so models that were have here are correct.

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 Post subject: Re: Cossack Tabor
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:21 pm 
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Hetman Polny Koronny
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Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 10:28 pm
Posts: 1597
Maybe we will make war wagons in deployed position. But for now it is not necessary. You must know that in this scale 1 stand represents about 50 men. In case of tabor, one stand is probably 20-30 wagons arranged in 2 lines. So even if deployed the whole tabor won't be "shorter" than in movement.

Sometimes tabor was a real fortress - wagons were chained together, and filled with earth. But AFAIK this was done only in case of long sieges. Normally wagons were arranged in this way that back wheel of one wagon was chained with front wheel of the other. Unfortunately we know this from text and it is hard to find good reconstruction of tabor. Maybe it looked like this:

[WW]H - imagine this is war wagon and horses from above.
--- is just an empty space
X is a chain which chains together back and front wheels of wagons

Tabor could look like this:

[WW]H---[WW]H---[WW]H---[WW]H
----X----X----X---X----X---X----X
-----[WW]H---[WW]H---[WW]----[WW]H

This is of course just one "wall" of tabor. As You can see always back of one wagon is chained with front of the other. This forms a kind of train. The horses inside are covered by wagons so the enemy can kill only those outside, but to do this he must be in shooting distance of whole tabor. If enemy will kill all outside horses he will kill only half of the total number of horses in this train so it could be possible to move. Or maybe those wagons from outside didn't have horses, and those inside have spare? In this manner all horses would be covered and tabor could still move. And of course if horses are killed there is still much of Cossack rabble inside so they could be send to push the train ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Cossack Tabor
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:19 pm 
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Pachołek/Camp servant

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:26 am
Posts: 350
Location: Warszawa
I would rather make something like this :)

[WW]X[WW]X[WW]X[WW]X[WW]X[WW]X[WW]-
XX---XX---XX-X---XXX---XX---XX--XX--XXX-----
[WW]HHH-[WW]HHH-[WW]HHH-[WW]HHH-[WW]


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 Post subject: Re: Cossack Tabor
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:49 pm 
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Sekretarz królewski/Royal secretary

Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:55 am
Posts: 3818
Congratulation for replaying 6 years old topic (even before premiere of the game) ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Cossack Tabor
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:59 pm 
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Pachołek/Camp servant

Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:26 am
Posts: 350
Location: Warszawa
I'm just looking for information about wagon :)

I hope my example will serve future generations :D


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