Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

Historyczna Gra Strategiczna - Historical Wargame
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 Post subject: New American player interested in the Tartars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:06 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:03 pm
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Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening,

My local game store recently started carrying this game after a demo was ran there. I'm extremely interested in the game but still trying to figure out what faction to play. From my understanding, the Tartars are a hit and run type of army, but I'm looking for opinions of those that actually field them. What are their strength and weaknesses, how do they compare to other factions? Is the overall play style hit and run?


Thank you for your time!


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 Post subject: Re: New American player interested in the Tartars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:47 pm
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Location: Almere, The Netherlands
I have not played with them, but have played against them (loss and draw). Depending on the scenario, Tartars can be a really force to play with or against. :D

Hit & run is definitely what I would use to describe them. You want to annoy the enemy, disctract them by hit and run technics and they have a wonderful "feigned flight" rule which is great to let the enemy make some mistakes (let them charge in different directions, with you out of reach, hoping they get disorganized and hit them 8-) ). After that you can pick out and destroy the enemy units 1 by 1.

I can point out two disadvantages. If you don't split up the enemy force you will probably have a hard time against any army as most armies have some hard hitting units that can make the Tartars crumble.
Second, and important one, as far as I know, there aren't units in the skirmish force that can occupy buildings. So when you play scenario's with an opponent occupying buildings you will have a hard time picking up some victory points.

Maybe some people don't agree with what I typed here, but these are my experiences. Iluzagin is pretty experienced with the Tartars. I bet he can tell a bit more and more detailed.


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 Post subject: Re: New American player interested in the Tartars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:52 pm 
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Pachołek/Camp servant
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Location: Delft, The Netherlands
Hi Kibbz,

Welcome to the game.

I'll see if I can give my opinion, which is based on several games (~15 in total), so it is an initial one. Perhaps others with more experience can add to my points, and/or give a beter view.

Tartars are indeed rather hit-and-run. Almost all cavalry is light cavalry (except max 6 bases at divisional level). Only Ottomans can match the number of light cav at skirmish level, none at divisional.
The Tartars are good shots, but with an inferior weapon, the bow. But they can use an additinal dice in defense, but at the cost of using more ammo. Can be usefull.
In combat they are reasonable, but their defense is weak. And in combat resolution the -1 for open order can stop you.
One thing they don't like is being shot at by gunpowder weapons at short range. In those circumstances they test when loosing a single unsaved hit, instead of loosing a base (after three unsaved hits).

But, because they are light cavalry they are very mobile, and that is one of their main strengths. Go around flanks and attack in flank or rear and they are nasty.

I consider them a lot of fun, but not easy to master.

Some notes to compare them to the other armies (all comments in relation to Tartars based on my own observations):
- Sweden, Brandenburg-Prussia and Imperialist: western style armies. solid, good at holding and shooting, but relatively slow. Frontally attacking them is almost suicidal, but they can be outmanuevred.
- Muscovite: large in numbers, mostly not good quality, relatively slow. I don't have much experience with/against them.
- Ottomans: large in numbers, reasonable quality. Their light skirmish list is similar in numbers, the sipahi list are quick, but not as manuevrable
- Polish-Lithuanian: good quality and a mixture of western and eastern types. cavalry is very mobile in move, but limited in the charge. Timing is very critical against them, as their cavalry charge is nasty.
- Transylvanians: good initial punch, but glass cannons (from what I've seen). But they can really punish you if you give them the chance.

With the Tartars it is matter of learning when to stay away, shoot, and when to get close and go for the kill. Mostly you'll need to soften up the enemy, and then finish it.

I hope this helps a bit.
Cheers,
Zagin


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 Post subject: Re: New American player interested in the Tartars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:02 am 
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Namiestnik

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Posts: 1828
I second that.
In most cases it is safer to circle around enemy unit and hit it with your bows, than go into combat even when you outnumber enemy by 3 times.
Having your regular units shooting skills on 5 you can just overwhelm your enemy with arrows hoping for the kill. Even if his armour is at 7 with lets say 10 hits you can do some damage (on the other side it is also likely he will save all of it ;) )

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 Post subject: Re: New American player interested in the Tartars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:22 pm 
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piotroslav wrote:
I second that.
In most cases it is safer to circle around enemy unit and hit it with your bows, than go into combat even when you outnumber enemy by 3 times.
Having your regular units shooting skills on 5 you can just overwhelm your enemy with arrows hoping for the kill. Even if his armour is at 7 with lets say 10 hits you can do some damage (on the other side it is also likely he will save all of it ;) )



How hard is it exactly to manuever around the enemy? (I haven't gotten a demo of the game yet so I haven't experienced actual movement yet). Also I was reading through the rule book, most of all the Tartar units have shooting at 1, how do you get it to 5?


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 Post subject: Re: New American player interested in the Tartars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:43 pm 
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Location: Delft, The Netherlands
You'r most numerous regular unit (the tartar warrior without spear) has a shooting score of 2 (number of dice thrown), but they have a skill for shooting at 5 (basic skill is 4, but special rule makes it 5), which is the number you have to roll without modifiers.

Cheers,
Zagin


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 Post subject: Re: New American player interested in the Tartars
PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:46 pm 
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Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
2 Questions:

1. I bought the Polish Skirmish set. Are there any advantages/disadvantages between the Tartars and Wallachians".

2. Are the tactics for both of them the same


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 Post subject: Re: New American player interested in the Tartars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:09 am 
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Namiestnik

Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:04 pm
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Tartars have "Feighned flight", so they can always shoot at enemy who tries to charge them. Wallachians have to pass skill test in this situation, so there's a chance enemy will attack their back. Hovever, Wallachians have pistols and they're bit more effective in CC. Tartars have bows, so they have a larger fire zone, but to hit rolls are the same as for Wallachians (only difference is Wallachians firearms dont get +1 to armour penalty at long range). Because of bows special rules Tartars can shoot from rear ranks or increase the number of dice they're using, they can also shoot while charging. Both units are light cavalry, so you shouldn't try frontal charges on regular enemy units, unless you really outnumber them. Instead of it, you should try "soften" enemy units with shooting and try to avoid being charged.


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 Post subject: Re: New American player interested in the Tartars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:57 pm 
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The Tartars have other advantages that no-one has commented on yet.
They have quite good commanders, also special rules "Beating the Tartars" and "Their sight is better".
Beating the Tartars is quite useful - gives a good chance of getting a scenario you like.
Their sight is better can effectively give you a raiding force behind enemy lines.

And they rack up loads of reconnaissance points - pretty unbeatable on that.


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 Post subject: Re: New American player interested in the Tartars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:04 pm
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I think Jerryk is talking about polish Tartars.


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