Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

Historyczna Gra Strategiczna - Historical Wargame
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 Post subject: Mercenary Skirmish Force
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:52 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 8:42 pm
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Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
Is there a Skirmish force list build for a mercenary group that has Foreign Mercenary Infantry, regimental guns and allows you to add a variety of Cavalry units (Polish, Swish, Bavarian, etc. If one exists could you provide it. if once does not can you develop one?

I have the Polish Skirmish set with Pancerni, Cossacks and Wallachians. Is it reasonable to add more Cavalry to the Slutsk force list and if so what would you recommend?

Jerry


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 Post subject: Re: Mercenary Skirmish Force
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:04 pm 
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Fältherren
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Location: Edinburgh
It's historical game, not fantasy setting, so adding Bavarians that didn't fought in this part of Europe would be weird. I think you're bit misled by whole 'mercenery' term. Majority 'foreign' troops in Polish and Lithuanian service were in fact recruited locally, only dressed and trained in 'Western' fashion.
Historical (themed) skirmish lists are fully completed lists, so no addition to them is required or suggested.

For your own local games, you can make whatever mix you want - even field Turks next to winged hussars in one skirmish group - as long as it makes your play time fun. But we do not plan to make any such fantasy stuff part of official BFaS materials.

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 Post subject: Re: Mercenary Skirmish Force
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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The rule book uses the term Foreign Contingent Infantry Regiment. To my thinking these troops were hired and therefore not Polish since the term foreign was used. Did true foreign mercenaries exist in this time period and if so did they also include cavalry. If true mercenaries existed and included cavalry could someone build a foreign mercenary force that included a mixture of cavalry force types such as Reiters, bowman, troops with spears, etc. and how would you suggest they put such a list together?

Jerry


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 Post subject: Re: Mercenary Skirmish Force
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:43 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
My reference to countries really was meant to reflect cavalry type not country (lancers, bowman, troops using pistols, etc.)


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 Post subject: Re: Mercenary Skirmish Force
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:16 am 
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Fältherren
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Foreigners were rarely treated as 'merceneries' (like in let's say 16th century), they were just enlisted troops, with total mix of different nationalities. In Polish and Lithuanian armies there were so called 'autorments' (National and Foreign) - contingent was the best word to use it for it - but that was due to the way of raising the units, not due to national structure of troops. So for example in Wallachian and Tatar light cavalry you have plenty of Polish and Lithuanians (well, there was even one famous Persian), 'German' infantry and dragoons would normally only have some percentage of officers and (especially) NCO's recruited from foreigners, with majority of rank and files made from native troopers.

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 Post subject: Re: Mercenary Skirmish Force
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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Kadrinazi wrote:
Foreigners were rarely treated as 'merceneries' (like in let's say 16th century), they were just enlisted troops, with total mix of different nationalities. In Polish and Lithuanian armies there were so called 'autorments' (National and Foreign) - contingent was the best word to use it for it - but that was due to the way of raising the units, not due to national structure of troops. So for example in Wallachian and Tatar light cavalry you have plenty of Polish and Lithuanians (well, there was even one famous Persian), 'German' infantry and dragoons would normally only have some percentage of officers and (especially) NCO's recruited from foreigners, with majority of rank and files made from native troopers.


Part of what makes the setting for me is that it's not the western rennaissance. There is a much stronger theme for a given force compared to another.

Jerry, at skirmish level, I think a Lithuanian force might fit your needs, even though the different parts of the force are still more 'national' compared to a western army of the period/prior 100+ years. At least you can get a mix of cavalry types.

A skirmish force that mimics what you can do with HRE and Polish allies at divisional might also do it, but doesn't exist at the smaller level.

I'm really not an expert, but the armies here look very different than those of the wars happening west of south of Prussia.


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 Post subject: Re: Mercenary Skirmish Force
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:31 pm 
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Komisarz królewski/Royal commissar
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Jerry, if you want to lead a force like that, you need to go back to Northern Italy in the first half of XVI century, to the era of condottieres :)

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