Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

Historyczna Gra Strategiczna - Historical Wargame
It is currently Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:12 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Guide to alternative models in BFaS (official rules)
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 11:53 pm 
Offline
Fältherren
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:21 pm
Posts: 10328
Location: Edinburgh
GUIDE TO ALTERNATIVE MODELS IN BY FIRE AND SWORD

Many of You are asking us about combining models from different formations to make Your units more interesting. Also there’s case of not (yet) released models – what can You use instead. We receive question about how to treat such units for purposes of WYSIWYG and if using them will be treated as ‘prox’ on official tournaments. Below You can find our answer to such queries. It’s official ruling by BFaS design team and as such all units used this way are treated as fulfilling all requirements of official models.

We would like to remind that this document is an offical information from Wargamer regarding using alternative models during the tournaments endorsed by the company as official BFaS events. We would like to ask both players and organisers of such events to obey them.

Suggested proportion of models in each unit (unless noted in other way) is 2:1, where 2/3 models in units are ‘original’ models from formation its depict, while up to 1/3 is composed of alternative models. Thanks to that Your opponent should be able to easily recognize what unit he/she is dealing with. Models should be mixed on bases, in similar ratio to already described, so for example 3 alternative models shouldn’t be placed on same base.

Alternatives models are divided into two categories:
- Replacements (in text they are marked as [r]) - whole unit can be composed of them
- Additional models (in text they are marked as [a]) - up to 1/3 odf the units can be composed of such models, where they need to be mixed with original models (see above).

Mixed option: [r] and [a] - means that unit can be composed from only oner type of replacement OR mix of different replacements OR mix of original models and replacement (in ratio of 2 original to 1 alternative model)

Regarding standards - both commanders and unit had to use standard from correct army. Mercenary standards can be only used by Swedes, Denmark and P-L Commonwealth (Poland, Lithuania, Gdańsk and Courland). In Commonwealth and Denmark you can't use though flags with Karl X Gustav letters and Swedish crowns.

We welcome all comments, suggestions and Your questions in that matter. Photo of such units would be also very welcomed.

I. Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth iconRON

1. Pancerni/cossack style cavalry - [a] – here we can use wide range of models. Mix of pancerni (with and without spears), cossack style cavalry (with and without spears), volunteers/noble levy and petyhorcy can make each unit very unique. Pancerni and petyhorcy are ideal as elite cossack style cavalry in Lithuanian army, You can also add few of these to such formation in Polish army. Perfect alternative models to be added to cossack style cavalry is Wallachian light cavalry. Our historical consultant Artur ‘Dobywszypałasza’ Świetlik converted few banners (sic!) into cossack, by changing their caps, extending clothes (kontusz and żupan) and adding braids (pętlice) on clothes. While it require lots of work with Green Stuff, it can brings great results. As elite cossack style cavalry and pancerni You can also add few Turkish sipahs in chainmail and ‘misiurka’ helmet. Some conversions – like changing trousers and extending coat – is needed though. For Polish cossacks from Czarniecki’s division fighting in Danemark You can use some converted reiters: remove hats and long hair, add fur cap (many soldiers from these units used Western-type clothes).

2. Noble levy - [a] - mix of all models mentioned above but I would suggest most of all minis without any armour.

3. Volunteers - [a] - same as with cossack style cavalry (point I.1). As this formation have much more ‘international’ way of recruiting soldiers, players can easily add few extras. For Polish volunteers You can use few reiters, mounted Gdańsk militia and even mounted Cossacks. All such models can be used for Lithuanian volunteers, on the top of it some Muscovite boyars and servant cossacks can be added as well. It is important though, to keep such ‘international’ models in appropriate ratio, no more than 2-3 ‘international’ models per 3-4 bases.

4. Foreign infantry (new type)- [r] - models for Swedish national regiment, new type mercenary regiment and Gdańsk militia can give interesting mix of troops in the regiment. Imperial infantry regiment can be used as well.

5. Reiters - [a] and [r] – all Western-type models, including Prussian and Danish reiters and all three types of Imperial cuirassers, can be used her, the only reiters’ models that shouldn’t be used are Muscovites.

6. Dragoons - [a] and [r]– both Polish and ‘Western’ (Swedish and Brandenburg) dragoons can be mixed within regiment, although not within same company.

7. Polish infantry - [r] – set of Polish infantry with arquebuses can be used as both Polish-Hungarian and Wybraniecka/Lan/Chimney infantry armed with muskets and arquebuses.

8. Foreign infantry (old type)- [a] and [r]- Prussian musketeers can be used as additional to normal ‘old’

9. Janissaries (from Jan Sobieski’s historical division) - [r] - use Turkish jannissaries, You can add one of musicians from Mehter. Info about uniforms and standard of Sobieski’s janissaries (although from later period) is available (in Polish) on my blog:
http://kadrinazi.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06 ... na_15.html

10. Peasants (from Jan Sobieski’s historical division) - [r] – use Cossack rabble, without Cossack flag and monks, also Polish peasant partisans. You can (but don’t have to) add few moloitsy with firearms (1 models/2-3 bases) to show that peasant are equipped with handguns. As ‘Warlord’ use any type Polish cavalry officer.

11. Cannon crews - [r] – You can use Swedish cannon crews for both Polish and Lithuanian crews.

II. Cossacks iconKOZ

1. Mounted Cossacks -[a] – one or two Polish nobles/volunteers can be added, as after all some nobles were fighting on Cossacks side. Some Wallachians with carbines can be used here as well. Just add spears (on sling next to arm) and convert their caps. Normal Moloitst are used as dismounted models, You can (but don’t have to) use some of them with spears.

2. Rabble - [a] – Polish peasant partisans can be used in mix with original Cossack models.

III. Sweden iconSWE

1.Reiters (national and mercenary) - [a] – wide range of ‘Western’ type officers can be used to add variety to units. Veteran reiters and mounted Gdańsk militia are also perfect ad additional to normal models. As mercenary reiters You can also use Prussian reiters (except model with montero cap) and all three types of Imperial cuirassiers (except models with enclosed helmet and fur hat). Danish reiters can be used for both formations.

2. Native infantry and new type mercenary - [a] and [r]– as per point I. 4. Danish 'winter' infantry can be only used as [a].

3. Old type mercenary – as per point I. 8.

4. Dragoons - [a] and [r]– Brandenburg dragoons can be mixed with Swedish or used on their own within companies.

IV. Tartars iconTAT

1. Models of Commonwealth Tartars and Wallachians can be used (mixed as whole units) to show mutinied Tartars that left Polish army in spring of 1672. They of course cannot use Commonwealth standards anymore, had to use horse-tails bearers; some Crimean Tartars can be added to the mix to show their new allegiance.

2. Kappy kulu - [r] – as description of these units is very scarce and there’s no iconography available, we suggest two options:
- Turkish segbans, models with hats need to be converted to have fur caps, typical for Tartars
- janissaries, conversions of hats as above
Within each units use same type of models (so only segbans or only jannissaries), although within whole corps You can mix ortas.

3. Darbzen 300 dirhems - [r] – using Turkish cannon of that type (set OTT-11), there’s no need to convert crew.

4. Zahara- [r] - until new models are released ‘Western’ type transport wagon can be used, need to be crewed by Turkish or Tartar models. Cossack war wagon can be converted as well, by removing Cossack crew and cannon, adding packages/cargo or cover above it, adding crew of Turks or Tartars. For camels use Mehter camel with segban guards.

V. Ottomans iconTUR

1. Tartars -see point IV.1.

2.European sipahs -[r] – some pancerni/petyhorcy with ‘misiurka’ hat can be used (but no more than 1/ala). Only models with, replace horses to those without pistol’s holsters. Once again Wallachian with bows can be used here, just replace their caps with turbans, that way You can use them as sipahs, besli and gonullu.

3. Zahara - until new models are released ‘Western’ type transport wagon can be used, need to be crewed by Turkish or Tatar models. Cossack war wagon can be converted as well, by removing crew and cannon, adding packages/cargo or cover above it. For camels use Mehter camel with segban guards.

VI. Muscovites iconRUS

You can check article by Rafał Szwelicki available in our ‘Merkuriusz’’ magazine (page 17). Although in Polish, it can still give You idea about different Muscovite headgear that can be used for converting the models.

1. Boyar sons - [a] – some models of Commonwealth nobles/volunteers and cossack style cavalry can be added, to show those Lithuanian nobles that joined Muscovites in early stages of 1654-1667 war. Some servant cossacks (especially with elements of armour) can be used to add variety to boyars.

2. Reiters[ a]– few (no more than 1-2 per 3-4 rotas) of armoured Swedish reiters can be used to depict ex-Swedish or Lithuanian soldiers in Muscovite service.

3. Hussars - [r] – use Commonwealth hussars as base of conversion. Add beards, change headgear and clothes to look more like Muscovite-type.

4. Lancers - [a]– Just add spears to Muscovite reiters, they can be add on sling to left arm or to saddle.

5. Servant cossacks – one or two boyar sons can be used on bases to shows commanders of smaller units.

6. Field dragoons- [a] - Some models of registered moloitsy (but not their command group) and servant cossacks (without armour and armed with handguns) can be used as dismounted dragoons with muskets. Add long fur caps in Muscovite style. As pikemen just use Border Dragoons pike. As mounted dragoons use three models of servant cossacks with handguns (as mounted musketeers) and boyars sons without bows and armour (as mounted pikemen).

7. Dworians - [a] – You can just use boyars sons - very easy way to point such distinction is to use horses with pistols’ holsters for dworians. In the same way (by using different horses and adding shield) You can use such models for elite sotnia and zavoievodchicy. Some models of pancerni/cossack style cavalry/petyhorcy can be used, when converted: change headgear to Muscovite-style, add beards and longer hair.

VII. Courland iconKUR - as this army do not have dedicated miniatures, use any mix from below


1. Officers – all kind of ‘Western’-type models, including Danes and Imperials.

2. Mercenary reiters –as per description from pdf, You can also use Swedish veterans and mounted Gdańsk militia (althogh this last one is better used in formation of Rossdiensts). Also all three types of Imperial cuirassiers will fit well here.

3. Rossdiensts (noble levy) – as per pdf, supplemented by mounted Gdańsk militia. One or two models from cossack style cavalry and noble levy/volunteers can be used as well. Prussian reiters are also very good choice.

4. Dragonia – as per pdf + Brandenburg dragoons

5. Infantry – any ‘Western’ type musketeers without forks, including Gdańsk militia and Imperials.

VIII. Royal City of Gdańsk iconGDA
[pdf currently only available in Polish] - use any mix below

1. Officers – next to dedicated models You can use any type of ‘Western’ type: Swedes, Danes or Imperials.

2. Mercenary reiters - use models from sets SWE-4 or SWE-1. As armoured models use SWE-2 and SWE-3. You can also convert some Swedish veterans. All three types of Imperial cuirassiers and Danish reiters are good choice here.

3. Mounted militia – as per pdf: set SWE-4 + GDA-2, also Prussian and Danish reiters.

4. Mercenary infantry and militia – any ‘Western’ type musketeers without forks, including Danish 'winter' infantry.

IX. Brandenburg/Prussia iconPRU

1. Officers - [a] and [r] –You can use any type of ‘Western’ type: Swedes, Danes, Gdańsk or Imperials.

2. Prussian musketeers - [a] and [r]–next to dedicated models You can use ‘old type’ infantry musketeers with Spanish muskets. You can field all companies in Your skirmish force or regiment with just ‘old type’ models.

3. Regular Brandenburg reiters/Prussian territorial reiters - [a] and [r]– use models of Swedish and Gdańsk reiters without armour and arquebuses. All three types of Imperial cuirassiers and Danish reiters can be used as regular reiters.

4. Regular Brandenburg dragoons - [a] – Swedish dragoon set SWE-9.

X. Denmark-Norway iconDAN

1. Officers -[a] and [r]– next to dedicated models You can use any type of ‘Western’ type: Swedes, Gdańsk or Imperials.

2. National cavalry- [a] and [r] – models from sets SWE-1, SWE-4 and GDA-2. Also Prussian reiters and all three types of Imperial cuirassiers.

3. Mercenary cavalry- [a] and [r] - models from sets SWE-1, SWE-4 and GDA-2, also Swedish veterans. As armoured models use sets SWE-2 and SWE-3. All three types of Imperial cuirassiers can be used as well.

4. Dragoons (any type) - [a] and [r]- Swedish dragoon set SWE-9 and Brandenburg dragoons.

5. Snapphanar - [a] and [r]– best options here are ‘Western’ type musketeers without forks, especially kneeling ones (like from set GDA-3). As some regular units of Snapphanar were composed of dragoons, You can add few dismounted models from set SWE-9. Make some conversion to slightly change appearance of models to more ‘civilian’ like: remove swords, remove hats or replace them with caps. Brandenburg dragoons equipped with axes can be used as well.

XI. Holy Roman Empire iconHRE

1. Officers - [a] and [r] – next to dedicated models You can use any type of ‘Western’ type: Swedes, Brandenburg, Gdańsk or Danes.

2. Cuirassiers/Veteran cuirassiers- [a] - As armoured models use sets SWE-2 and SWE-3. As models without armour from sets SWE-1, SWE-4 and GDA-2, also Swedish veterans.

3. Dragoons (any type) - [a] and [r]- Swedish dragoon set SWE-9, supplemented by some models of Brandenburg dragoons.

XII. Transylvania iconTRA

1. Polish Wallachian cavalry can be used as [a] to Kurtany cavalry.

XIII. Others

1. Historical ‘Western’ officers – without their Special Rules of course – can be used for any ‘Western’ type army as commanders (generals) and officers. They can be also used as officers of foreign regiments (infantry, dragoons, reiters) and artillery in P-L Commonwealth.

2. In historical skirmish groups, if information about models is not mentioned in this topic, please follow guidaince from the skirmish itself.

3. 'Western' type musicians and ensigns (standard-bearers) can be used in any 'Western' type army, 'Foreign' troops (reiters, dragoons and infantry) and artillery in Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and in German infantry sereg in Transylvanian army.

Michał „Kadrinazi” Paradowski (with many thanks to Konrad, Rafał and Artur for their ideas, suggestions and comments)
By Fire and Sword team

_________________
http://kadrinazi.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guide to alternative models in BFaS (official rules)
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 2:19 am 
Offline
Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 7:18 pm
Posts: 544
The effort put into this is much appreciated, thank you!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guide to alternative models in BFaS (official rules)
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2014 2:08 pm 
Offline
Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:34 am
Posts: 998
Location: Leipzig (Germany)
Impressive list. Thank you :)

_________________
Uczę się języka polskiego. Jeśli piszę coś źle, proszę mnie poprawić. :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guide to alternative models in BFaS (official rules)
PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2014 7:20 pm 
Offline
Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2013 3:24 am
Posts: 2
very useful, thanks!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guide to alternative models in BFaS (official rules)
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:54 pm 
Offline
Fältherren
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:21 pm
Posts: 10328
Location: Edinburgh
I just updated main lists with many new entries, for models from KS. Amongst them surprise - we will release third type of Imperial cuirassiers ('with three guns') scuplted by Artur. Some more information about those models soon...

_________________
http://kadrinazi.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guide to alternative models in BFaS (official rules)
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2015 9:52 pm 
Offline
Fältherren
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:21 pm
Posts: 10328
Location: Edinburgh
New update:
- added info regarding standards
- added info regarding miniatures from historical army lists (pdf)
- some point were removed from the lists
- some information in few points were changed

_________________
http://kadrinazi.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guide to alternative models in BFaS (official rules)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:53 pm 
Offline
Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2014 2:27 pm
Posts: 189
Location: Oslo, Norway
Maybe we could get this list updated with the new Denmark-Norway pdf. I'm still puzzled why Imperial infantry can be used as Danish mercenary, but not national infantry. Ditto for the Swedish national and new style mercenaries, which seem to contain mostly the same figures only differing in pose.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guide to alternative models in BFaS (official rules)
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 5:21 pm 
Offline
Fältherren
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 11:21 pm
Posts: 10328
Location: Edinburgh
Danes are explained in pdf, no further changes are planned.

_________________
http://kadrinazi.blogspot.com


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guide to alternative models in BFaS (official rules)
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:16 pm 
Offline
Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:08 pm
Posts: 8
Quote:
Polish infantry - [r] – set of Polish infantry with arquebuses can be used as both Polish-Hungarian and Wybraniecka/Lan/Chimney infantry armed with muskets and arquebuses.

Well. But look, if I want to take to the division, the Polish infantry and Lan infantry. How do I visually show that they are different? The colors of the uniforms because they should be the same.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Guide to alternative models in BFaS (official rules)
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:10 am 
Offline
Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 2:34 am
Posts: 998
Location: Leipzig (Germany)
Wybraniecka/Lan/Chimney infantry is more numerous. Also you can give them a different banner.

_________________
Uczę się języka polskiego. Jeśli piszę coś źle, proszę mnie poprawić. :)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group