Ogniem i Mieczem - By Fire and Sword

Historyczna Gra Strategiczna - Historical Wargame
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 Post subject: Historical Uniform Guides for Painting Miniatures
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:45 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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I am an old historical gamer (well, hopefully not that old) but new to the area covered in the BFaS rules. I prefer to paint my figures accurately so I am seeking advice/recommendations for books on uniform guides for armies of the period. I've ordered a Polish/Lithuanian force and Muscuvite force to start off with so they are my priority but any help would be appreciated. I will use the BFaS rules book and painted armies posted online until then but its nice to have historical references (with color pictures) as well. Thanks for any and all help in advance.

Vince


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Uniform Guides for Painting Miniatures
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:41 am 
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Fältherren
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Problem is, that these armies rarely have uniforms. Certain colours could be often used for majority of infantry units (like blue and red in P/L infantry and dragoons, grey in all sort of infantry for almost all armies) but cavalrymen had their own clothes, so each men looks different.

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 Post subject: Re: Historical Uniform Guides for Painting Miniatures
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:09 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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At least some of the Muscovite infantry (e.g. streltsi) had rather colorful uniforms. I find this series of articles from Airfix Magazine (also published as a book) quite helpful. Also, there are of course the ubiquitous Ospreys, provided you realize the color plates are just artist's impressions and concentrate on the text instead. I'm sure someone will claim every single available source in English is wrong, but that is IMHO not very helpful (one bad source is better than none, as it enables you to put painted figures on the table).

My own rule of thumb is that if the figures are sculpted in uniformly cut clothing, it looks silly to paint them in totally random colors (did the regimental tailor run out of cloth?). I'm also prepared to sacrifice some historical accuracy for playability – I've found when introducing the game to new players they have a hard time keeping track of the various units, especially when the names are totally incomprehensible. So I paint my reiters in red uniforms while keeping the boyars and servant cossacts random:
ImageImage


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Uniform Guides for Painting Miniatures
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:58 pm 
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Pachołek/Camp servant
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I like the pictures of the streltsy at Kolomenskoye. It shows them all wearing a red jacket, but all other parts of their kit is almost random. As if only the coat was uniform.
Is that something that was the case with streltsy?

Cheers,
Zagin


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Uniform Guides for Painting Miniatures
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:51 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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Yes, and different regiments wore different colours. Some recreations also show them wearing fur hats of the same colour.

I wonder if Muscovite Reiters, Soldats and perhaps even Field Dragoons also wore regimental colours?


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Uniform Guides for Painting Miniatures
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:51 pm 
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Podczaszy Ziemski
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My approach was sort of similar to callan's: I painted my streltsy in red uniforms (I bet that's quite accurate) but boyars are random mix. Wrt reiters also mixed - even though it was 'new pattern' formation.

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 Post subject: Re: Historical Uniform Guides for Painting Miniatures
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:58 am 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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Gentlemen, Thank you all for your insight and suggestions. I watched the 1999 film, With Fire and Sword (with English subtitles) last week on Youtube for another "reference" and it mirrors some of the comments presented here, even if its just a movie. I will also have to agree that for an historical gamer like myself, given the unfamiliar names of the various units some consistency in uniform colors is a necessity in order to keep track of the troops on the table. If anyone comes across additional information or pictures worth posting please don't hesitate to add to the comments already posted here and I will certainly do the same. This is one area of history that we need to be mutually supportive of each. Thanks again and have fun gaming.


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 Post subject: Re: Historical Uniform Guides for Painting Miniatures
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:15 am 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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Also on Facebook there are several reenactment groups which excellent equipment:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 706&type=3

Also i attached a picture with Streltsy uniforms.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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 Post subject: Re: Historical Uniform Guides for Painting Miniatures
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:16 am 
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Fältherren
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VincentS - if there's any specific formation that you want to know more about? There's plenty of stuff avaible in Polish, even in Polish section of forum, so I would be happy to translate for you. I'm certain that it can be useful for other guys as well :)
With all due respect to all the effort that reeco guys put in their work, I would be very cautious to use them as an example for painting.

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 Post subject: Re: Historical Uniform Guides for Painting Miniatures
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 11:10 am 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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Kadrinazi is right. Especially with reenactors you should be careful. For example the majority of people who reconstruct Winged Hussars wear red clothes. Only a few i have seen in blue and green clothes. In reality each Hussar was an individual withhis own style of clothing. There wasn't any uniform. Only the pennants on the lances seem to be identical in the same Chorągwi/Banner. But even this isn't sure.

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