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 Post subject: The Danish division list - how good is it?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:45 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Hi

How good is the new Danish division list? Is it balanced against armies like Sweden?
Is it lacking in any respects?

I am wondering if I should start BFaS and whether or not the Danish army is worth it...

Cheers
Draccan
iconDAN

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 Post subject: Re: The Danish division list - how good is it?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:55 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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All armies are worth it to be taken. The whole balance of the game is not only determined by the faction lists, but also game mechanics as choosing the scenario's and certain effects on and events of armies.

In my opinion there are two questions for choosing an army:
* What army appeals to you the most?
* Does the army fit in your gaming style?

But I haven't played with them yet; too many stuff to do first (but I will get myself the infantry division with the Dutch regiment 8) ).


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 Post subject: Re: The Danish division list - how good is it?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:13 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower

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There are four Danish division lists available as pdf. I have not had the opportunity of playing them yet, but these are my impressions:
Division in Scania - nice balance against Swedish local list of Scania and Halland. There are weaknesses, but Your enemy has those too. Loads of troops, lacking in quality.
Division in Holstein - should play against the invincibles list. Looses in quality, wins in quantity. Can field a reasonable ratio of mercenaries to stiffen their resolve.

Both New War divisions have nice addition of mercs and allies. Still able to outnumber the invincibles.

For starting the balance of skirmishlists might be more critical. Danish skirmish lists seem to be generally smaller in points than the Swedes, meaning they have a good chance of hitting the enemy with effects and defending in the scenario. Danish mercs are almost as good as comparable Swedes, but suffering from scarce ammo rule. National troops are freshly raised conscripts with stats reflecting this.

The Danish New war skirmish might be the easiest list to try with: lean, all mercs with decent command and possible allied contingent.

All in all - the Danish lists seem generally mediocre when compared to Swedes - but not a bad choice if they interest You. Roughly similar gaming experience without the same amount of feelings might be achievable with some other western type army: Prussia-Brandenburg or Imperials. All have slightly different flavor although the main components are similar: reiters, dragoons and pike and shotte infantry.


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 Post subject: Re: The Danish division list - how good is it?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:02 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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Julfdi ... thanks for posting your view! : )


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 Post subject: Re: The Danish division list - how good is it?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:16 pm 
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Ciura obozowy/Camp follower
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Thanks Julfdi

Yeah, I like the idea of playing Danes (my own country) against Swedes, so I will most likely go ahead no matter what. But without having the rulebook yet, it doesn't seem a little constricted when compared with Swedes...

Cheers
Draccan

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 Post subject: Re: The Danish division list - how good is it?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:03 pm 
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Julfdi wrote:
There are four Danish division lists available as pdf. I have not had the opportunity of playing them yet, but these are my impressions:
Division in Scania - nice balance against Swedish local list of Scania and Halland. There are weaknesses, but Your enemy has those too. Loads of troops, lacking in quality.
Division in Holstein - should play against the invincibles list. Looses in quality, wins in quantity. Can field a reasonable ratio of mercenaries to stiffen their resolve.

Both New War divisions have nice addition of mercs and allies. Still able to outnumber the invincibles.

For starting the balance of skirmishlists might be more critical. Danish skirmish lists seem to be generally smaller in points than the Swedes, meaning they have a good chance of hitting the enemy with effects and defending in the scenario. Danish mercs are almost as good as comparable Swedes, but suffering from scarce ammo rule. National troops are freshly raised conscripts with stats reflecting this.

The Danish New war skirmish might be the easiest list to try with: lean, all mercs with decent command and possible allied contingent.

All in all - the Danish lists seem generally mediocre when compared to Swedes - but not a bad choice if they interest You. Roughly similar gaming experience without the same amount of feelings might be achievable with some other western type army: Prussia-Brandenburg or Imperials. All have slightly different flavor although the main components are similar: reiters, dragoons and pike and shotte infantry.


I looked over the Swedish (Deluge) vs. the Danish lists. It does seem like the Swedes only cost like a fraction more but get a ton of special rules that makes them better, where the Danes suffer from multiple special rules to underscore how much they sucked... (which I guess they did up to the point of the second war where they defended Copenhagen valiantly and won with women and students and farmers and whatnot on the walls)..

Oh well I am not one to shy away from an uphill battle...

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 Post subject: Re: The Danish division list - how good is it?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:16 pm 
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I don't agree Swedes get ton of special rules that make them better, if all they make them more vulnerable (like the special rule on divisional level where they suffer extra wounds on a bad roll). And if there is a positive rule, there is some requirement that is hard to get.

And don't forget the Dutch defending Copenhagen. :-D


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 Post subject: Re: The Danish division list - how good is it?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:45 am 
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Well from someone who has yet to try the game or read all the rules:

The Danish list, some observations:
* There are four division lists. Div. in Scania 1657 is from the period when Denmark was overrun by the Swedes. Division in Holstein is "not real Danes" and doesn't appeal to me. New War offensive list 1659-1660 doesn't contain anything but mercenaries and is from the period after Copenhagen defended itself and Sweden lost. That leaves the list and period I am the most interested in: New War, defensive division 1958.
* The general has no command points as such but rolls on a table with variable results
* There are no elite units
* The div. has half the light and medium guns of comparable Swedish list. No artillery major
* All cavalry, national and mercenary units have scarce ammo except dragoons.
* Danish national infantry has a recruit rule giving them additional breaking points

If I compare with the Deluge list for Sweden, Garrison Division (1648-1660):
(I choose this list as easier to compare than a pure cavalry list)
* Double artillery and 2 levels of Artillery major
* General with 3 or 4 command points
* Ammunition wagons
* Most units gets Military drill; additional defensive maneuver
* Disciplined; all units may reroll morale tests for appearance of enemy due to flanking and ambush AND units +1 morale bonus for every four bases instead of normal five
* Large staff rule; reroll failed morale when reorganizing troops

That said there are a couple of negative Swedish rules as well (small units and the bellum rule) and a couple of positive Danish rules. The more I think about it the more I realize that this is exactly how it should be considering the bleak situation in Denmark until Sweden failed to take Copenhagen in 1659 and eventually the king died and allies to Denmark helped them regaining the country.

Let me postface this by saying; I don't really know what I am talking about. Just some random observations.

I do think the lists are interesting enough to captivate my imagination and the games look awesome, so I expect to invest heavily in this! :D

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 Post subject: Re: The Danish division list - how good is it?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:03 am 
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draccan wrote:
* There are four division lists. Div. in Scania 1657 is from the period when Denmark was overrun by the Swedes. Division in Holstein is "not real Danes" and doesn't appeal to me.


To be precise: both divisions are based on Danish troops preparing for offensive move against Swedes in summer 1657: division from Scania moving into Halland and troops from Schleswig attacking Holstein and Bremen. In 'Scanian' division all of the infantry was composed of Danes (both conscripts and enlisted/mercenary regiments), also larger part of cavalry was composed of native Danes. In 'Holstein' division only one regiment of infantry was enlisted in Schleswig and Holstein + 3 regiments of cavalry: rest were made of Danes.

draccan wrote:
* There are no elite units


Check again: both Scanian and Holstein division have elite regiment of cavalry

draccan wrote:
* All cavalry, national and mercenary units have scarce ammo except dragoons.


Only in Skirmish Force in Scania and Holstein, not on Division level.

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 Post subject: Re: The Danish division list - how good is it?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:20 am 
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You are right about scarce ammo but if you read again my elite comment was directed to the defensive division.

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